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Post by andypandy380 on Feb 17, 2013 6:38:39 GMT -5
It's no mystery that Merzbow has worked with a massive amount of different artists over the years... Does anyone have a favourite? Are there any really worth avoiding? Is there another artist who's work with Merzbow really feels 'just right'? Are there any other bands/artists who you think could make an awesome collaboration if they were to team up with Merzbow? And how do people feel about Merzbow's appearences/remixes for other bands?
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Post by andypandy380 on Feb 17, 2013 6:46:04 GMT -5
The only collaboration albums I own are: MerMar - Lasse Marhaug V - Pan Sonic Merzbow/John Weisse 7" and a few albums with Merzbow appearences, Melvins, Sunn O))), Agoraphobic Nosebleed etc...
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Post by qweasd on Feb 17, 2013 8:52:13 GMT -5
Generally, the collaborations are substandard compared with Merzbow's solo output, due to artists not really adding to Merzbow's aesthetic in an interesting way.
Among the better ones would be the work with sunn o))), Kikuri with Haino, perhaps mazk (not so sure about Karkowski though - any recommendations of good discs from him from those who've listened for a while, as i've heard a few that haven't rocked my world), Multiplication with John Wiese is good (and the best of anything I've heard with Wiese's name on it - a live show I saw of his completely confirmed he had little to offer).
I'm not as into the Boris collabs in general, but some ok moments there... (I don't find Boris so interesting).
I think Merzbow and Acid Mothers Temple would be an obvious collab, or else with Boredoms in a less straigtjacketed mode. Either way, Merzbow with a noisy psych rock band with a good sense of long time spans. (I couldn't help but think AMT were the band for that collab back in the day, though I haven't heard anything that interesting from them for a long while). The same is true for metal, but due to the more through-composed and technical/detailed nature of extreme metal, it would be hard to think of bands that would have the stamina, imagination(!) or the know-how with longer durations to meld appropriately with Merzbow (hence the appeal of Merzbow's own take on extreme metal, which doesn't rely on the unshakeable rhythmic grid of shorter tracks and 4/4 - which even supposed masters of complex rhythm Meshuggah mostly do!) Metal bands are too caught up with riffing and songwriting (and a highly generic approach to music in general resulting from being 'metal') to really explore the more 'chaotic' profile of noise. And psych bands are too repetitive or else improvisatory and relying on lazy human habits (rhythmic grids, drone, endless wandering solos) to be a worthy match of the dimensionality of Merzbow.
Collaborations with more academic musicians in the electronic music or contemporary classical field would perhaps offer the most fruitful outcomes, but there would be mismatched agendas there I feel. And perhaps this is the one shortcoming of Merzbow in general - a bit too stream of consciousness (hence willing to participate in collaborations with whoevers).
Harsh?
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Post by andypandy380 on Feb 17, 2013 9:43:01 GMT -5
Not sure that's too harsh lol, there's plenty of points there id back you up on. I'm a believer of people being somewhat critical of the music they listen to. I like the Merz/Weise 7" a lot, but in all honesty if it didn't have John Weise written on it I would have just assumed it was Merz on his own. I've never given the Boris collabs much attention, I like Boris a lot, but it seems people treat the Boris/Merz as a sort of an introduction to Merzbow for those who aren't familiar with his own work.
Metal has become very much a stuffy sort of a genre for me, I grew up listening to it, I still listen to a lot of it... but people's attitude towards it really pisses me off a lot of the time. there are people who have this almost religious 'Metal Worship' thing going on, anyone who doesn't listen to metal is unworthy, if you don't dress a certain way you're not worthy of listening to it... if you don't like a particular song from a band you're not a 'real fan' and all that kind of nonsense... I think it's the sort of 'followers of metal' that would make a collaboration difficult more than the music itself.... as you say its that thing about being 'metal' and being true to it. I think there are certain bands that could pull it off, perhaps something like Brutal Truth... Kevin Sharp used to do vocals with Naked City, I doubt they would be shy of going a bit more 'far out' I do like Meshuggah, not nearly as much as I used to, Their last album was really quite poor in my opinion despite what the critics would tell you, I've enjoyed their live shows a lot though. They seemed to move away from being that 'metal' stereotype, but now the fans have kinda moved with it and what they do now is almost a stereotype of a different kind for another generation... I don't think what they do is nearly as remarkable as people would have you believe.
For me, Id very much like the Merzbow/Melt-Banana stuff to surface, although it seems very much doubtful that it will... apparently they played shows together performing Frank Zappa covers. I think a Merzbow/Nurse With Wound release could be excellent, Grating noise from Merzbow with the creepy aesthetic, spontaneous nature and humour of NWW could be a bit of a treat. Somebody like MC Dälek would perhaps be an unlikely combination, his own project is a sort of Sludge metal meets hip-hop and it really works in my opinion, If someone were to rap over a merzbow noise track... it might be somewhat controversial, but id love to hear someone attempt it for sure =p
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Post by whatjames on Feb 18, 2013 7:01:35 GMT -5
its been awhile since i've listened to them but i do recall theses collabs to be standouts Merzbow vs Nordvargr - Partikelý Merzbow / Genesis P-Orridge - A Perfect Painý Richard Pinhas and Merzbow* ý– Keio Line
and i like this remix album Ikebana: Merzbow's Amlux Rebuilt, Reused And Recycled
a collab with brutal truth would be great. first saw them about 18years ago and this was my first live experience of a wall of noise, it was great, at the 2009 gig i went to they started off with a live 10-15min noise feedback intro, so yeah it could work, i think one of the guys does a noise side project
i would like to see a collab with devin townsend or david thrussell
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Post by andypandy380 on Feb 18, 2013 8:38:42 GMT -5
yeah, I wouldn't mind a copy of that Genesis P-Orridge album, i gave it a very quick listen before and remember it sounding pretty twisted. That's pretty cool that you got to see Brutal Truth all those years ago, I love the 'Need to control' album more than the others, especially Kevins voice on that album, the way he breaks into that insane high pitched sort of ranting, on tracks like I See Red, Godplayer and Choice of a new generation. as soon as he starts all that, I sort of sit there open mouthed like "holy Shit Son!" I dunno that his voice is still up to it these days though.
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Post by caligulabob on Feb 18, 2013 17:56:51 GMT -5
Maldoror!
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Post by acsenger on Feb 21, 2013 4:47:21 GMT -5
I was listening to it the other day and didn't like it at all. It was directionless and unexciting for me. I believe it was edited by Mike Patton, so that could be the reason.
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Post by acsenger on Feb 21, 2013 4:59:20 GMT -5
There's a CD by Tomoko Mukaiyama, a contemporary Japanese musician (pianist perhaps?) on BVHaast called Amsterdam x Tokyo which includes a collab with Merzbow. I'd love to hear it. Has anyone heard it?
I liked the Merzbow track on that CD but not the Wiese stuff. That as well as everything else I heard from him (and some Sissy Spacek stuff) years ago was very average harsh noise to my ears.
That's exactly my opinion too. I love their first 3 albums but the albums starting with Nothing are just OK at best and the last one was absolutely disappointing (I still can't believe the hype about it!). After Chaosphere (perhaps my favourite) it seems to me they stopped evolving and what was once exciting and new has become a rigid form of music -- plus they can't even write good songs any more within their own boundaries. It's really sad.
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Post by andypandy380 on Feb 21, 2013 7:28:20 GMT -5
I probably wouldn't call myself a Mike Patton Fan, The first Mr Bungle album is still fun to listen to, but in all honestly I find much of his stuff a little, dare I say it, sickly... I can't really think of a sensible word to describe it. I have Suspended Animation by Fantomas and I spent more time flicking through the nice artwork in the calendar thing than listening to the music. He's a talented vocalist by all means, whether he's singing or yapping about like some sort of a rabid dog, he's very good at both and I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys listening to it. I just think the idea of his works 'sounds cool' until I actually sit down and listen to it... The Fantomas/Melvins album Millennium Monsterwork is really awful, Patton adds nothing remarkable to the Melvins songs whatsoever.
Meshuggah - The only tracks I genuinely enjoy from the new album are 'Behind The Sun' and 'The Hurt that Finds You First', the rest of it falls rather flat. I think the more recent albums have their moments, but for me Chaosphere remains that definitive Meshuggah album. Last time I saw them they played 'In death is life/death' followed by 'Dancers from a discordant system', which really was good. It's moment's like that which remind me why I still follow them.
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Post by acsenger on Feb 21, 2013 10:21:51 GMT -5
I really like Mr. Bungle, especially the second and third album. Disco Volante was a revelation for me and I was lucky enough to see them live in 1999. I usually like Patton's other projects to a certain extent too, although I wouldn't listen to almost any of them on my own accord (however, my girlfriend takes care of that as she's a massive Patton fan). That said, I saw Mondo Cane live a couple times in the past year and really enjoyed most of the songs. About the new Meshuggah: I could only listen to it twice and none of it stuck out. Maybe I'll give it another try.
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Post by japanesebird on Feb 22, 2013 14:54:43 GMT -5
merzbow & richard pinhas i have heard keino line and paris vinyl they are both very beautiful albums
the emotive spacey guitar and keyboard sounds from richard pinhas compliment the impersonal merzbow pulses and sound clouds very well
in fact their collaborations seem to be very special i feel like i am floating when i listen to them
always at night with eyes closed
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Post by qweasd on Feb 23, 2013 0:11:54 GMT -5
merzbow & richard pinhas i have heard keino line and paris vinyl they are both very beautiful albums Not a bad point... their work together is at least a well considered collaboration with both artists contributing something different to create a somewhat unique result. I do find it rather one dimensional and therefore there will most likely be a 'better' disc with a better sound (Keio Line) that will make the others redundant... until they change their tune a little! I admit to having put on Chaos Line a few times very late at night in different contexts and it having worked very suitably/atmospherically.
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Post by qweasd on Feb 23, 2013 0:19:42 GMT -5
Somebody like MC Dälek would perhaps be an unlikely combination, his own project is a sort of Sludge metal meets hip-hop and it really works in my opinion, If someone were to rap over a merzbow noise track... it might be somewhat controversial, but id love to hear someone attempt it for sure =p I'd be interested to hear Dalek give it a shot, though find it hard to imagine it working that well. Why not Merzbow and Death Grips too - would be revealing to see if Death Grips and the hipster cohorts would survive the onslaught PS. Patton = like a kid in a candy store. Can't focus on one thing and it's all sugar coated inside. Make something with some focus that ain't ripping off all the wwweird stuff you can get your hands on, Mondo...
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Post by andypandy380 on Feb 23, 2013 9:12:52 GMT -5
It's a shame dalek (the band) broke up, I know iconaclass is sort of more of the same but I've not really been following it so closely. Some of the stuff on Absence isn't a million miles away from what a merzbow hip-hop album might sound like. I can't rate that album highly enough. I like death grips, but not the hype that surrounds them, the music is great but all tht bs with signing to a major and then leaving as a sort of publicity stunt felt pretty goofy overall. They announced a show not far from me soon so i shall go have a look at that for sure. I'll try my best to stomach the amount of vintage chic 'I study film and video' types in thick glasses thatll undoubtedly be getting all up in my grill with their SLR cameras
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Post by madein on Jun 11, 2013 11:16:34 GMT -5
Usally, I am not interested in collaborations, so I didn't listened to very much albums. But I like very much the collaboration with Keiji Haino on Kikuri. I think these two artists fit together very well, especially the last track is awesome, thanks to the screaming and the electric guitar. The weakest track on the album is the second one. The guitar starts very interesting, but later it became silly, because Haino started to play rhythmical chords. I don't know why, but this part is just sounding amateurish to me. But in general, I would recommend it. A wish of me is, that I would love it, if there would be a collaboration between Merzbow and Hatsune Miku. Please don't start stoning me I think that the Vocaloid software has great potential, not only for pop music. Of course, he should not start to make pop music, but I'm just curious about, how it would sound like, if Masami Akita would work with it. When I heard Hatsune Mikus voice, I was so impressed, what technology is able to do. Her voice sounds so clear and perfect. Threre is no roughness, like in the voice of a human. I don't know why, but i hate music which contains a human singer, it doesn't even depend on the genre. (But I like choirs for some reason.) I like the certainty, that the voice not by a human, it is by a musical instrument! And that is the difference.
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Post by acsenger on Jun 11, 2013 11:39:44 GMT -5
I'm curious about Hatsune Miku. I've never heard her (it?) and I've only read about her in relation to her album with Hijokaidan. I'm not even sure if I understand what she is: a programmed female voice and a drawn cartoon character who is presented as a character on her own? I know people in Japan are crazy about her which is scary (although hardly surprising, since it's Japan). Somewhat related is an album by Jojo Hiroshige, Masami Akita, Masahiko Ohno and Miki Sawaguchi called Uterus and Human. It has three tracks and from memory two are the same but one track is a studio version, the other a live version. The first track is the best, with Akita on laptop, Hiroshige on guitar and Sawaguchi (who's a female porn star apparently) reciting a text in Japanese. It's a pretty good track. The live version is crap though as Sawaguchi starts screaming in a really annoying voice. I don't remember the third track clearly but I think it's a guitar noise piece by Hiroshige and Ohno (of Solmania fame) and nothing special. If not for the first track, I would sell the CD.
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Post by madein on Jun 11, 2013 12:39:01 GMT -5
I had never thought that Masami Akita has worked with a pornstar... but when the album is good, why not. I'm a bit shocked for some reason, but thats ok ;D I tried to find it on YouTube, but I just found only a video of a real human uterus. Also on google, I couldn't find much informations. Could it be, that this album is a rarity?
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Post by andypandy380 on Jun 11, 2013 14:39:15 GMT -5
I've not heard of this album before... was intrigued to check it out so i've had a rummage about online... www.discogs.com/Miki-Sawaguchi-Jojo-Hiroshige-Masami-Akita-Masahiko-Ohno-Uterus-And-Human/release/987749not yet found anywhere to give it a listen... the pics on Miki's discogs page alone confirm she's definitely a pornstar it seems Akita also contributed electronics to her other album 'Big Boobs' haha I don't find Akita's involvement with an actual porn star too surprising now, given his involvement in the production of bondage films, his books and adult magazine articles and the whole 'pornoise' cassettes of his early days... although admittedly I found the content of his films pretty damn shocking upon first seeing it! I was blissfully unaware of all that stuff until quite late in the game in terms of being a Merzbow listener sure freaked me the fuck out! Seems there's a bit of a theme with Industrial/noise music and porn, Cosey Fanni Tutti from Throbbing Gristle is an ex-pornstar, and Sasha Grey (the ex-pornstar) has an industrial band on the go, the two are close friends. I'm sure there's more examples than that.
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Post by madein on Jun 11, 2013 16:19:06 GMT -5
I just thought, that these are different things. Of course, his works are in some way linked together, no matter if music, literature or films, because all these things are coming from the same mind, so it is impossible that there could be a separation. What I can't understand, why he is working as a musican on a musical project, with a non-musican? Perhaps for this album was a pornstar (or just someone else who is always involved with intercourse in some way) needed, could it be, that she is the uterus and the musicans are the humans? (Metaphorically of course ) But when I remind myself, it makes no sense to think too much about it, because Akita is a fan of dadaism.
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Post by andypandy380 on Jun 11, 2013 16:52:52 GMT -5
Ah, I see what you're getting at Yeah, it does strike me as odd a little bit that he'd work with her in that case. I don't know to what extent Mika herself is a singer or a musician. If this is a case of a 'pornstar turned singer' kind of a novelty act, I guess he had his reasons working with her... I suppose the fact he goes by the name Masami Akita suggests that its rather a long way outside of what he would normally happen under the alias of Merzbow both creatively and collaboratively.
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Post by madein on Jun 11, 2013 17:40:58 GMT -5
Yes, maybe these are different stories, he is mentioned on this album as masami akita and not as merzbow. For example, on the album cuts he is mentioned as merzbow, and he is working there with two top musicans. Maybe he has another intention, when he is working as masami akita or as merzbow, that these are two different pairs of shoes. Ah, I am now reassured
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Post by andypandy380 on Jun 11, 2013 18:00:33 GMT -5
I've always wondered about the LP 'One Bird Two Bird' with Jim O'Rourke and Mats Gustafsson. That's another where he's as Masami Akita, however it is listed with the others on the Merzbow website. I'll have to give it a listen to see whether there is a rather different agenda soundwise on that particular release or not.
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Post by madein on Jun 11, 2013 18:05:21 GMT -5
A little bit off topic, but in which timezone are you living? We have here now 01:05 in the night.
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Post by andypandy380 on Jun 12, 2013 3:14:49 GMT -5
I live in England, so I'm only an hour behind you.
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Post by acsenger on Jun 12, 2013 3:47:21 GMT -5
Uterus and Human is for sale on Discogs for $14 plus shipping, so it's not too rare. I had Sawaguchi's Big Boobs album and the track with Akita is one of the tracks from Uterus and Human. I don't know if Sawaguchi is a musician in her own right, but given that she only does spoken word on UaH, I think it's not surprising she's on the album. I know she also played with Hijokaidan, so while I don't know how she got involved with noise, somehow she clearly did. Akita has written books about various sex-related topics, has been involved with movies and has made some albums with such topics too, therefore I don't find his involvement with Sawaguchi surprising. By the way, I listened to a downloaded copy of One Bird Two Bird the other day and I wasn't too keen on it. And I just got Brisbane-Tokyo Interlace (collab with John Watermann) and Noizhead today, so I'm looking forward to listening to them. The album with Watermann is supposed to be very good!
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Post by andypandy380 on Jun 26, 2013 13:00:52 GMT -5
Does anyone have the Merzbannon LP? I had never heard of Racebannon until the other day... and now I'm absolutely addicted to their stuff. Crazy metal/noise stuff (although I keep seeing them labelled as Screamo?) They remind me a little of the shortlived UK band Sikth. As far as I can gather the LP is just a Merzbow remix of the Racebannon Album 'Satans Kickin Yr Dick In', but I could see an actual collaboration between the two of them being reasonably successful.
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Post by acsenger on Aug 5, 2013 5:14:06 GMT -5
Andypandy380, have you heard (or has anyone else) that Merzbannon LP? On the topic of Merzbow and metal, I'd also like to hear the remix Merzbow and Lasse Marhaug did of Asterisk* material. I listened to the Asterisk* discography CD the other week and it's quite enjoyable and unique.
I got the Merzbow/Kim Cascone collab CD the other day and I must say the Merzbow track is killer! (I like Cascone's tracks too but Merzbow's is the best.) It's fully rhythmic, digital noise, not very harsh, but very interesting. It made me want to dig out my digital Merzbow albums and give them a good listen. And I think I'm gonna put said CD on again tonight!
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Post by andypandy380 on Aug 5, 2013 11:03:35 GMT -5
I have given it a very quick listen, the whole thing is on Youtube. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj-3jq6H_Mo lumbering beats and loopy vocals. i like the sound of it, but it's really only Akita doing a remix from what I can gather. Getting an actual copy isn't too easy due to ridiculous international shipping costs... Just given Asterisk* a listen, their name sounded vaguely familiar, definitely my kind of thing, noticed they're on threeoneG which makes me wonder what sort of material would surface if Merzbow collaborated with a band like The Locust... or Lightning Bolt. although I suppose we might get to see some of that once this Merzgrind project surfaces! I'm still holding out for some Merzbanana I've never been able to find any info on it other than Melt-Banana stating in interviews that it happened once upon a time in the 90s. the Merzbow Kim Cascone CD seems to pop up everywhere, I've never actually listened to it, sounds like maybe I ought to.
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Post by acsenger on Aug 6, 2013 9:59:05 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll have a listen on Youtube to Merzbannon. Ordering LPs from overseas is indeed ridiculously expensive. That's why I still don't have this LP or the aforementioned Asterisk* remix LP... I don't know if there's ever going to be a Merzbanana release since to my knowledge those live collaborations were done nearly 20 years ago... I'd definitely recommend the Merzbow/Cascone CD to anyone who likes digital sounds and quite a bit of rhythm (but not in a techno way, of course).
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